Postcards from the Bleeding Edge
Monday, June 29, 2009

  Constitutional Crisis in Honduras

I really hate the word "coup". Usually it implies a military takeover, sometimes foreign backed, such as the one that took place in Guatamala in 1954, or the one that toppled Honduras's government in 1963.

What appears to have just happened in Honduras - the ouster of highly disliked (25% approval rating) president Manuel Zelaya - by order of the Supreme Court, Congress, AND the military - does not look very similar to that (at least from first appearances)

For starters, he was replaced by the legal line of succession, Roberto Micheletti, the head of congress, and also a member of Zelaya's own party.

But, the word "coup" rules the day, and the rhetoric, and the debate inside wikipedia is astounding.

The rhetoric is being spewed by a peculiar alliance of just about every other politician in the world - left, right, it doesn't matter. It seems to boil down to: just about everybody holding power can agree on one thing: Arresting (and deporting) a president who clearly is attempting to violate his country's constitution, is wrong.

The irony of that observation is what is compelling me to write today - I confess to being amused by watching each ideology put their individual spin on things:

Xinhua (China), The New York Times (USA), Infowars (USA), Rueters (?) Finding Dulcinea, (EU), and Latin America.... (sorry, I will update these links to make more sense when I have time) AP...

Not to mention the irony of USA President Obama coming to the aid of a world leader that called for the legalization of drugs in order to eliminate the narco-trafficing trade... while he hangs out with the Colombian President, whose country is the source of much of that trade.

The best and most detailed reporting as to the depth of the crisis seems to be taking place in the Wikipedia article on the 2009 Honduran Political Crisis, which starts off by quoting the Constitution of Honduras:

(I note that the wikipedia article - several hours after I wrote this - bears little resemblance to the article I first linked to. I wish I'd taken a full snapshot of it then. Among other things, it used to have a translation of the referendum in it.The debate inside wikipedia is also very informative.)

The government refused to print Zelaya's referendum, so he got the ballots done in Venezuela.

His chairman of the joint chiefs refused last week to distribute that referendum. (I guess, after decades of dictators for life, you get a little touchy on the subject of term limits...)

Zelaya fired him.

The Supreme court ruled that an illegal act. So did the Honduran congress. The supreme court ordered Zelaya's arrest... and... he was arrested!

You have an angry and divided country, what are you going to do with a president under arrest?

Lock him in a penthouse suite, like Bernie Madoff? Throw him in a common jail with a roomate named Bubba? Kill him? Have him get pardoned immediately by the likes of a Gerald Ford?

Arrest, deportation, and same day release in a neutral country, like Costa Rica, I don't
know if that was legal or not, by Honduras law. I've been trying to figure out the proper procedure for arresting a president for decades now... but they didn't have a procedure in place for impeachment, much less arrest.

Deportation (and the resultant freedom of movement, ability to organise, and mouth off to the press) seems like a pretty sane alternative to those options, however one with far less than ideal characteristics if you didn't believe that the truth was on your side.

Recent polls show support for Zelaya in Honduras has dropped to around 30 percent in recent months.

What country takes their constitution so seriously as to actually throw out a scoundrel? One accused of trying to import another constitution entirely?

Why, if more countries took their constitutions seriously, the populace might get ideas about their governments actually respecting them. No wonder the world condemnation!

From this outdated American analysis of the Honduras constitution:Not this time, apparently, although an analyst says

What I enjoy most, as usual, is the commentary on the news articles, from ordinary people... In this case, running overwhelmingly in favor of the action:

"I am a Honduran citizen who feels extremely proud of the measures take by National Congress, The Supreme Court of Justice and our military forces. Mr. Zelaya had been warned many times that his actions were breaking laws of the constitution. There has been no "coup" in Honduras. Military Forces were simply following orders from the Supreme Court of Justice because Mr. Zelaya refused to back down from his plans. The poll is an illegal act benefiting only Zelaya and no one else. Good riddance!"

"I'm a Honduran resident, we are ok, it's true the situation in my country is not the best, but most of the people support the position here, we DON'T WANT Manuel Zelaya as a president again, during his period he has only been manipulating people, blackmailing ppl, threatening to dismiss state employees if they not support him, and many things that just people that we live in Honduras know...please take a look at the real situation not the lies that he says to the world."

"We're relieved that Zelaya was removed from the presidency. We´ve lived weeks of anguish watching how the ex president of Honduras acting as he was above the law, wondering what would happen to our democracy and to our country. If the President of Honduras thinks that he is above the Constitution, then what happens to the rest of the leaders? Are they above the law as well? Democracy has won, and the intl. community has to listen to the will of the people of Honduras. Don’t victimize Zelaya!"

How this plays out is going to be very interesting.

Update 8AM, Jun 30:

I am not going to change the text of what I wrote last night, although I may go back and clean up a few phrases and find more cites today, in addition to commenting further on this page. I find history changing under my fingers, as what happened in wikipedia in the last 24 hours, somewhat disturbing. The process by which wikipedia goes about that is transparent, open, and fascinating... and like wikipedia, I believe that "when the facts change, so does my opinion", but, in part, my blog is my journal of what I thought, when. Editing what I already wrote does not fit the wikipedia model in that respect.

Although I make it clear in the article and links above that I'm not particularly fond of Zelaya, or the CIA, or coups, or the ideological press, or the treatment of Madoff, and quite a few other things, I would like to re-iterate my main points were, 1) The multiple ironies involved and 2) the role of spin, and (indirectly) meme shifts, which I wrote about extensively in the last American election.

1) Irony

A comment (by a Honduran college student) on the wikipedia talk page put it best:



2) The role of the media, and "spin"

Two competing memes are in play. 1) "coup" - and 2) "the referendum was about allowing the president to be re-elected"

Most newspapers reports have converged on these two memes as shorthand.

The Honduran government disputes the first, as do some bloggers inside the country (even if no-one else outside the country does, 24 hours later), and the second was not the text of the referendum. From that always helpful wikipedia talk page...



It is interesting to compare DailyKos's (A progressive-liberal) views of
Honduras - and Iran. This article, although not representative of dailykos's views as a whole, was interesting, as were the comments.

More on this in a bit, I need a few more cites from more varying perspectives.

Update: Jun 30, 5:00 PM I haven't had power all day, a major storm hit this morning.....

Update: Midnight A lot has happened today, everything from the UN voting unaminously to endorse Zelaya's continued presidency to multiple protests on both sides, to me losing contact with the one friend I have in Honduras for the last 24 hours, entirely.

Probably the most elequent person inside Tegucigalpa, in her own way, was Figgylicious yelling back at the TV. I keep wondering when or if the MSM will try and follow up on the thousands of blog writers and commenters I've seen typing their hearts out.

Labels: , , ,

 
Comments: Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link



<< Home
David Täht writes about politics, space, copyright, the internet, audio software, operating systems and surfing.


Resume,Songs,
My new blog, NeX-6, My facebook page
Orgs I like
The EFF - keeping free speech in the world
Musical stuff I like
Jeff, Rick, Ardour, Jack
Prior Rants - Sunday Space Grabbag Big waves, bad knees Things I'd like to write looking for a new laptop, fruitlessly Thermodynamics, cap and trade Truth about Nicaragua is hard to come by Focus Pithy comment Earthship Pitaya Festival Feb 9th For Instance
Best of the blog:
Uncle Bill's Helicopter - A speech I gave to ITT Tech - Chicken soup for engineers
Beating the Brand - A pathological exploration of how branding makes it hard to think straight
Inside the Internet Mind - trying to map the weather within the global supercomputer that consists of humans and google
Sex In Politics - If politicians spent more time pounding the flesh rather than pressing it, it would be a better world
Getting resources from space - An alternative to blowing money on mars using NEAs.
On the Columbia - Why I care about space
Authors I like:
Doc Searls
Where's Cherie?
UrbanAgora
Jerry Pournelle
The Cubic Dog
Evan Hunt
The Bay Area is talking
Brizzled
Zimnoiac Emanations
Eric Raymond
Unlocking The Air
Bob Mage
BroadBand & Me
SpaceCraft
Selenian Boondocks
My Pencil
Transterrestial Musings
Bear Waller Hollar
Callahans
Pajamas Media BlogRoll Member

If you really want to, you can poke through the below links as well.

ARCHIVES
06/09/2002 - 06/16/2002 / 07/28/2002 - 08/04/2002 / 08/11/2002 - 08/18/2002 / 08/18/2002 - 08/25/2002 / 08/25/2002 - 09/01/2002 / 09/22/2002 - 09/29/2002 / 11/10/2002 - 11/17/2002 / 12/15/2002 - 12/22/2002 / 12/22/2002 - 12/29/2002 / 12/29/2002 - 01/05/2003 / 01/05/2003 - 01/12/2003 / 01/19/2003 - 01/26/2003 / 01/26/2003 - 02/02/2003 / 02/09/2003 - 02/16/2003 / 02/16/2003 - 02/23/2003 / 03/02/2003 - 03/09/2003 / 03/16/2003 - 03/23/2003 / 04/06/2003 - 04/13/2003 / 04/13/2003 - 04/20/2003 / 04/20/2003 - 04/27/2003 / 05/04/2003 - 05/11/2003 / 05/18/2003 - 05/25/2003 / 05/25/2003 - 06/01/2003 / 06/01/2003 - 06/08/2003 / 06/08/2003 - 06/15/2003 / 06/15/2003 - 06/22/2003 / 06/22/2003 - 06/29/2003 / 06/29/2003 - 07/06/2003 / 07/20/2003 - 07/27/2003 / 07/27/2003 - 08/03/2003 / 08/03/2003 - 08/10/2003 / 08/10/2003 - 08/17/2003 / 08/17/2003 - 08/24/2003 / 08/24/2003 - 08/31/2003 / 08/31/2003 - 09/07/2003 / 09/07/2003 - 09/14/2003 / 09/14/2003 - 09/21/2003 / 09/21/2003 - 09/28/2003 / 09/28/2003 - 10/05/2003 / 10/05/2003 - 10/12/2003 / 10/12/2003 - 10/19/2003 / 10/19/2003 - 10/26/2003 / 10/26/2003 - 11/02/2003 / 11/02/2003 - 11/09/2003 / 11/09/2003 - 11/16/2003 / 11/30/2003 - 12/07/2003 / 12/07/2003 - 12/14/2003 / 12/14/2003 - 12/21/2003 / 12/28/2003 - 01/04/2004 / 01/11/2004 - 01/18/2004 / 01/18/2004 - 01/25/2004 / 01/25/2004 - 02/01/2004 / 02/01/2004 - 02/08/2004 / 02/08/2004 - 02/15/2004 / 02/15/2004 - 02/22/2004 / 02/22/2004 - 02/29/2004 / 02/29/2004 - 03/07/2004 / 03/14/2004 - 03/21/2004 / 03/21/2004 - 03/28/2004 / 03/28/2004 - 04/04/2004 / 04/04/2004 - 04/11/2004 / 04/11/2004 - 04/18/2004 / 04/18/2004 - 04/25/2004 / 04/25/2004 - 05/02/2004 / 05/02/2004 - 05/09/2004 / 05/09/2004 - 05/16/2004 / 05/16/2004 - 05/23/2004 / 05/30/2004 - 06/06/2004 / 06/06/2004 - 06/13/2004 / 06/13/2004 - 06/20/2004 / 06/20/2004 - 06/27/2004 / 06/27/2004 - 07/04/2004 / 07/04/2004 - 07/11/2004 / 07/11/2004 - 07/18/2004 / 07/18/2004 - 07/25/2004 / 08/08/2004 - 08/15/2004 / 08/22/2004 - 08/29/2004 / 08/29/2004 - 09/05/2004 / 09/05/2004 - 09/12/2004 / 09/19/2004 - 09/26/2004 / 09/26/2004 - 10/03/2004 / 10/03/2004 - 10/10/2004 / 10/10/2004 - 10/17/2004 / 10/17/2004 - 10/24/2004 / 10/24/2004 - 10/31/2004 / 10/31/2004 - 11/07/2004 / 11/07/2004 - 11/14/2004 / 11/14/2004 - 11/21/2004 / 11/21/2004 - 11/28/2004 / 11/28/2004 - 12/05/2004 / 12/05/2004 - 12/12/2004 / 12/12/2004 - 12/19/2004 / 12/19/2004 - 12/26/2004 / 12/26/2004 - 01/02/2005 / 01/02/2005 - 01/09/2005 / 01/16/2005 - 01/23/2005 / 01/23/2005 - 01/30/2005 / 01/30/2005 - 02/06/2005 / 02/06/2005 - 02/13/2005 / 02/13/2005 - 02/20/2005 / 02/20/2005 - 02/27/2005 / 02/27/2005 - 03/06/2005 / 03/06/2005 - 03/13/2005 / 03/27/2005 - 04/03/2005 / 04/03/2005 - 04/10/2005 / 04/10/2005 - 04/17/2005 / 05/29/2005 - 06/05/2005 / 06/05/2005 - 06/12/2005 / 06/12/2005 - 06/19/2005 / 06/19/2005 - 06/26/2005 / 06/26/2005 - 07/03/2005 / 07/03/2005 - 07/10/2005 / 07/10/2005 - 07/17/2005 / 07/24/2005 - 07/31/2005 / 07/31/2005 - 08/07/2005 / 08/07/2005 - 08/14/2005 / 08/14/2005 - 08/21/2005 / 08/21/2005 - 08/28/2005 / 08/28/2005 - 09/04/2005 / 09/04/2005 - 09/11/2005 / 09/11/2005 - 09/18/2005 / 09/18/2005 - 09/25/2005 / 09/25/2005 - 10/02/2005 / 10/02/2005 - 10/09/2005 / 10/09/2005 - 10/16/2005 / 10/16/2005 - 10/23/2005 / 10/23/2005 - 10/30/2005 / 10/30/2005 - 11/06/2005 / 11/06/2005 - 11/13/2005 / 11/13/2005 - 11/20/2005 / 11/20/2005 - 11/27/2005 / 11/27/2005 - 12/04/2005 / 12/04/2005 - 12/11/2005 / 12/11/2005 - 12/18/2005 / 12/18/2005 - 12/25/2005 / 01/01/2006 - 01/08/2006 / 01/08/2006 - 01/15/2006 / 01/15/2006 - 01/22/2006 / 01/22/2006 - 01/29/2006 / 01/29/2006 - 02/05/2006 / 02/19/2006 - 02/26/2006 / 03/05/2006 - 03/12/2006 / 03/19/2006 - 03/26/2006 / 03/26/2006 - 04/02/2006 / 04/02/2006 - 04/09/2006 / 04/09/2006 - 04/16/2006 / 04/23/2006 - 04/30/2006 / 05/07/2006 - 05/14/2006 / 05/14/2006 - 05/21/2006 / 05/21/2006 - 05/28/2006 / 06/04/2006 - 06/11/2006 / 06/11/2006 - 06/18/2006 / 06/18/2006 - 06/25/2006 / 06/25/2006 - 07/02/2006 / 07/02/2006 - 07/09/2006 / 07/09/2006 - 07/16/2006 / 07/23/2006 - 07/30/2006 / 08/06/2006 - 08/13/2006 / 08/13/2006 - 08/20/2006 / 09/03/2006 - 09/10/2006 / 09/17/2006 - 09/24/2006 / 09/24/2006 - 10/01/2006 / 10/01/2006 - 10/08/2006 / 10/22/2006 - 10/29/2006 / 11/19/2006 - 11/26/2006 / 11/26/2006 - 12/03/2006 / 12/03/2006 - 12/10/2006 / 12/10/2006 - 12/17/2006 / 12/17/2006 - 12/24/2006 / 12/24/2006 - 12/31/2006 / 01/07/2007 - 01/14/2007 / 01/14/2007 - 01/21/2007 / 01/28/2007 - 02/04/2007 / 02/11/2007 - 02/18/2007 / 02/18/2007 - 02/25/2007 / 02/25/2007 - 03/04/2007 / 03/04/2007 - 03/11/2007 / 03/18/2007 - 03/25/2007 / 04/01/2007 - 04/08/2007 / 04/08/2007 - 04/15/2007 / 04/15/2007 - 04/22/2007 / 04/22/2007 - 04/29/2007 / 04/29/2007 - 05/06/2007 / 05/06/2007 - 05/13/2007 / 05/20/2007 - 05/27/2007 / 05/27/2007 - 06/03/2007 / 06/03/2007 - 06/10/2007 / 06/10/2007 - 06/17/2007 / 06/17/2007 - 06/24/2007 / 07/01/2007 - 07/08/2007 / 07/08/2007 - 07/15/2007 / 07/22/2007 - 07/29/2007 / 07/29/2007 - 08/05/2007 / 08/05/2007 - 08/12/2007 / 08/26/2007 - 09/02/2007 / 09/09/2007 - 09/16/2007 / 09/23/2007 - 09/30/2007 / 09/30/2007 - 10/07/2007 / 10/07/2007 - 10/14/2007 / 10/14/2007 - 10/21/2007 / 10/21/2007 - 10/28/2007 / 10/28/2007 - 11/04/2007 / 11/04/2007 - 11/11/2007 / 11/11/2007 - 11/18/2007 / 11/18/2007 - 11/25/2007 / 11/25/2007 - 12/02/2007 / 12/02/2007 - 12/09/2007 / 12/09/2007 - 12/16/2007 / 12/16/2007 - 12/23/2007 / 12/23/2007 - 12/30/2007 / 01/06/2008 - 01/13/2008 / 02/03/2008 - 02/10/2008 / 02/17/2008 - 02/24/2008 / 02/24/2008 - 03/02/2008 / 03/02/2008 - 03/09/2008 / 03/09/2008 - 03/16/2008 / 03/16/2008 - 03/23/2008 / 03/23/2008 - 03/30/2008 / 03/30/2008 - 04/06/2008 / 04/20/2008 - 04/27/2008 / 04/27/2008 - 05/04/2008 / 05/04/2008 - 05/11/2008 / 05/11/2008 - 05/18/2008 / 05/18/2008 - 05/25/2008 / 05/25/2008 - 06/01/2008 / 06/01/2008 - 06/08/2008 / 06/08/2008 - 06/15/2008 / 06/15/2008 - 06/22/2008 / 06/22/2008 - 06/29/2008 / 07/06/2008 - 07/13/2008 / 07/13/2008 - 07/20/2008 / 07/20/2008 - 07/27/2008 / 07/27/2008 - 08/03/2008 / 08/03/2008 - 08/10/2008 / 08/10/2008 - 08/17/2008 / 08/17/2008 - 08/24/2008 / 08/31/2008 - 09/07/2008 / 09/07/2008 - 09/14/2008 / 09/14/2008 - 09/21/2008 / 09/21/2008 - 09/28/2008 / 09/28/2008 - 10/05/2008 / 10/05/2008 - 10/12/2008 / 10/12/2008 - 10/19/2008 / 10/19/2008 - 10/26/2008 / 10/26/2008 - 11/02/2008 / 11/02/2008 - 11/09/2008 / 11/09/2008 - 11/16/2008 / 11/16/2008 - 11/23/2008 / 12/07/2008 - 12/14/2008 / 12/21/2008 - 12/28/2008 / 12/28/2008 - 01/04/2009 / 01/18/2009 - 01/25/2009 / 01/25/2009 - 02/01/2009 / 03/22/2009 - 03/29/2009 / 05/10/2009 - 05/17/2009 / 05/17/2009 - 05/24/2009 / 05/31/2009 - 06/07/2009 / 06/14/2009 - 06/21/2009 / 06/21/2009 - 06/28/2009 / 06/28/2009 - 07/05/2009 / 07/05/2009 - 07/12/2009 / 07/12/2009 - 07/19/2009 / 07/26/2009 - 08/02/2009 / 08/09/2009 - 08/16/2009 / 08/23/2009 - 08/30/2009 / 09/06/2009 - 09/13/2009 / 09/20/2009 - 09/27/2009 / 09/27/2009 - 10/04/2009 / 10/04/2009 - 10/11/2009 / 10/11/2009 - 10/18/2009 / 10/18/2009 - 10/25/2009 / 10/25/2009 - 11/01/2009 / 11/29/2009 - 12/06/2009 / 12/27/2009 - 01/03/2010 / 01/31/2010 - 02/07/2010 / 02/07/2010 - 02/14/2010 / 02/28/2010 - 03/07/2010 / 03/07/2010 - 03/14/2010 / 03/28/2010 - 04/04/2010 / 04/18/2010 - 04/25/2010 / 05/16/2010 - 05/23/2010 / 05/30/2010 - 06/06/2010 / 06/13/2010 - 06/20/2010 / 06/20/2010 - 06/27/2010 / 07/04/2010 - 07/11/2010 / 07/11/2010 - 07/18/2010 / 07/18/2010 - 07/25/2010 / 08/08/2010 - 08/15/2010 / 08/29/2010 - 09/05/2010 / 09/05/2010 - 09/12/2010 / 09/19/2010 - 09/26/2010 / 09/26/2010 - 10/03/2010 / 10/10/2010 - 10/17/2010 / 10/17/2010 - 10/24/2010 / 10/31/2010 - 11/07/2010 / 11/28/2010 - 12/05/2010 / 12/05/2010 - 12/12/2010 / 12/12/2010 - 12/19/2010 / 12/26/2010 - 01/02/2011 / 03/06/2011 - 03/13/2011 / 03/13/2011 - 03/20/2011 / 05/22/2011 - 05/29/2011 / 08/07/2011 - 08/14/2011 / 08/14/2011 - 08/21/2011 / 09/18/2011 - 09/25/2011 / 10/02/2011 - 10/09/2011 / 10/09/2011 - 10/16/2011 / 11/06/2011 - 11/13/2011 / 01/15/2012 - 01/22/2012 / 04/22/2012 - 04/29/2012 / 06/24/2012 - 07/01/2012 / 08/05/2012 - 08/12/2012 / 08/11/2013 - 08/18/2013 / 03/01/2015 - 03/08/2015 / 10/04/2015 - 10/11/2015 / 11/08/2015 - 11/15/2015 /


Powered by Blogger